Episode 13: Transcript

13. Talking About Wills Won’t Kill You - T&E Attorney Roxy Hammett Breaks Down What Millennials Need to Know About End-of-Life Paperwork

Brooke James: Hi everyone, thanks so much for tuning into The Grief Coach. I'm really excited about our episode today. We have a Trust and Estates Attorney, who is going to be  speaking about all sorts of considerations that you should be thinking about as you're setting up these documents, both for yourself and for a parent, a partner, etc. I'm going to let her introduce herself in a second, but before we do get into the conversation, I want to remind everyone that this is not personal legal advice, but should be considered as general information, and you'll want to speak to your own attorney who knows the particulars of your situation before you make any of these documents. So, Roxy, if you could please introduce yourself. I'm so excited you're here with us today.

Roxy Hammett: Oh, thank you, Brooke. And thank you for inviting me to be on this episode, I really appreciate it. So, everyone, my name is Roxy Hammett. I'm a Trust and Estates Attorney. I'm with a law firm in New Jersey, we’re called Chiesa Shahinian & Giantomasi. I know those are three long names, so go by CSG, it's a lot easier.

Brooke: Wonderful, thank you. So, I think some of you who follow us on social may have seen that the other day I mentioned that this conversation was coming up, and to see what questions that you all had. And lots of you sent stuff in, so thank you for that. But the most common question that I received was, “What's a good place to start?” What should people know, both as they're setting up their own paperwork, and as they're setting up for their parents?

Roxy: Okay. Well, Brooke, I would be happy to address that. So, every adult should have the three basic estate planning documents in place, and those are a will, a living will, and a power of attorney. Now, of course, you could have additional documents such as a revocable trust and irrevocable trust, other things, but the will, living will, and power of attorney are really the basic, necessary documents to have. So, that's the place to start for yourself. And in terms of your parents, you want to make sure that they have those documents as well. And sometimes parents may not want to, you know, reveal the contents of the documents. You never know, but it would be a good idea to know that at least that they have those documents in place. 

Brooke: And can you tell us a little bit about what each of those documents are, in case people don't know what the difference between them are?

Roxy: Sure, yes. The purpose of the will is to dispose of your assets when you pass away. And what a lot of people don't understand, is that a will only disposes of probate assets. And by that, I mean assets that are in your name alone with no co-owner or beneficiary designation. So, for example, a bank account in your name alone, when you pass away, that bank account will pass under your will as part of your estate to the beneficiaries under the will. Same thing with real estate. If you own real estate in your name alone, would pass under your will when you die. So those, like I said, are probate assets. There are also- most people have non-probate assets as well. So non-probate assets are those that have a co-owner, or a beneficiary. So, some common examples are joint accounts. So, a joint account passes outside your will when you die. So, if husband and wife have a joint bank account, and when the first spouse dies, the surviving spouse will receive that account outside the will. So the will could say whatever it wants, it doesn't control that non-probate asset. Same thing with a retirement account, that's a pretty common asset for people to have. That's normally an asset where you pass it by beneficiary designation that you've signed during your lifetime, doesn’t pass under your will. So that's the will, the first of the three documents. A living will is for your health care decisions. So that, if there comes a time in the future where you can't make your own healthcare decisions, in the living will you would name someone as your healthcare representative or agent- every state calls it something different- to make those decisions for you. And you can also include instructions in the living will, what you do and you don't want. The third document is power of attorney. Very important. So, if you become incapacitated, the power of attorney allows your agent to sign things for you, to sign a check on your account, to sign your income tax return, because if you are incapacitated, how are your bills going to be paid? Things like that. So, all the documents are important for those reasons.

Brooke: That's really helpful information, and I think a lot of people are kind of confused, specifically, around the non-probate versus probate assets, so thank you for designating that out. When people are going to meet with an attorney for the first time, what sort of questions should they be asking, and how should they be preparing? And again, if you could talk about both personally and, a lot of- like, I know my friends are named as executor or power of attorney, etc, for their parents- so if you could talk about that please.

Roxy: Sure, okay. So, if you're meeting with the attorney on your own estate planning, what you'd want to bring with you is a list of your assets, that would include the estimated values and who owns what. Is it in your name, your spouse's name, is it jointly owned asset, and for those non-probate assets that have beneficiaries, who have you already designated, if you've done a designation. And you should also have some idea of in your will, living will, power of attorney, those three documents, what do you want to say in those documents? Who do you want to benefit in the will when you die? Who is a good choice to be the executor of your estate? Who's a good choice to be the guardian of your minor children? Who do you want to decide about your healthcare decisions? You don't have to have everything planned out and all decided, that's for you to talk about with your own attorney, and the attorney can, you know, say, “Well, you know, there's pros and cons of having the same person be the guardian for your children and the trustee for them,” you know? So once you have that information, you can decide.

Brooke: And be more informed about it, yeah.

Roxy: Yes, exactly. And if you're meeting with the attorney about, unfortunately, your parents' estate, and you're the executor, you'd want to bring with you what information you were able to find about your parents' assets, like, for example, statements. You know, if you go through the desk, maybe you'll find some statements, deeds, you know, for real estate, whatever you can find about the assets, and also any liabilities.

Brooke: Yeah. And then, would it be if- like, I know I have a few friends who have expected income, whether it's equity in a company, or- that they would be likely to get when their parents or grandparents pass away. Is that useful information for an attorney to have, and should we be bringing that when we’re going to these meetings?

Roxy: Oh, definitely. Because, as the executor, your job is going to be to transfer all of the assets out of your parents' name to wherever they're supposed to go. So that's, you know, whoever's the beneficiary under the will. So the attorney helping you with the estate is going to need to know about all of the assets. Plus, there's also potentially estate or inheritance taxes, which can be based on, you know, the size of the estate. So, you know, if it's a large estate, lots of assets, there may be a federal estate tax, there could be a state estate tax, depending on what state you live in. And some states also have inheritance tax. 

Brooke: Define what the assets are.

Roxy: You’re right. And their value is very important.

Brooke: Right. And then I know that, and I would assume that you would recommend, especially if it is expected to be a large estate, that you speak with an attorney. And I know that there's ways to set up some tax deferments, etc. And then, listeners, you would just want to speak specifically to an attorney about your situation. And then one question also that we got a lot of, was when setting up these documents both for ourselves and then when we're speaking to our parents about them- it's not a one and done situation, it should be, especially like if you have children, you'll have to include who would take care of them as- if you pass away while they're a minor, but how often should people be redoing these, or are there specific life events that would trigger a review of these documents?

Roxy: Right. Well, there's no particular set time to review them. I mean, we tell people every three years or so, pull out your documents, take a look at them, make sure they're still what you want, but you can change your will, living will, power of attorney, whenever you want. But if you don't look at them for 20 years, they're unlikely to be, you know, what you still want, if you did it that long ago. So it is a pretty common reason to change them for life events. Obviously, if you did documents while you were single and now you're getting married, that's a big life change. And then, you know, typically the spouses would have documents that name each other. Also a divorce, the reverse. So, if you're getting divorced, that is a very common reason to have to redo your estate planning documents. Other, you know, life events or just, you know, kids grow up. If you did a trust under your will for your children with certain ages, and now your child's over those ages, then maybe you want to change your will to take that trust down. Or, if you did a trust with ages for the children of, you know, like 25 and 30, that's fairly common, but it turns out after some years your child has some problem, substance abuse or, you know, whatever, that trust with ages may not be appropriate anymore. Maybe you want to trust for the child's whole lifetime. So, these things really have to be monitored. I mean, not like every day, you're not going to pull out your will and take a look at it, but you do want to not forget about it for many, many years. There's also potentially tax law changes that could happen, If you have a taxable estate that might affect your will. 

Brooke: That's- it's so much to keep track of. But again, so important. I know, in my own experience, and then speaking to friends, that having these documents correct and updated is so important. And also knowing where the originals are. I think when the first time you and I spoke, I told you we didn't know where the originals of my dad's will were, and that's what you need to submit to the probate court. And a lot of people keep theirs in a safety deposit box, but if the executor doesn't have a key and are not a co-signer on the box, then they can't get to it. So, being thoughtful about where you put them even is something that you have to think about.

Roxy: Right. I mean, sometimes the attorney will offer to hold onto the original will in their own office safe. Which can be very flexible because, like you said, with a safe deposit box you have to have a key, or you have to be a signer on the box in order to get into it. Whereas, if it's at the attorney's office, you just call the office and, you know, it's immediately available to you. And the original, you're absolutely correct, Brooke, that you have to have that original will for probating it once the person passes away. I once probated a copy of a will, I don't know why the surrogate's court let me do that, but they let me do that with an affidavit from the attorney who drafted it saying this was a true copy of what I drafted, whatever. But that was once in a blue moon. I mean, basically you're never going to be able to get a copy of a will probated. 

Brooke: Right. Which is what we were really nervous we were going to have to do, but ended up, we- I think I told you this- we, my dad was in the hospice, and we put him in a wheelchair and brought him into his office, because we had been looking, looking, looking. And he was on painkillers because he was close to the end, and we were like “Where is this?” And that's not a situation that I would wish on anyone. And having to, while you're caring for someone you love, and this is if it's an expected death, if it's unexpected and you don't know where it is, like that’s, I would even say, an even bigger issue, but that we had to be spending hours and hours looking for it instead of sitting with him, I wish that we didn't have to do that. So I would encourage-

Roxy: Yeah, what a shame. So what we do, we often- the client will leave their will with us. Not all the time, you know, but we offer that, and then we send the client a copy, and the copy has a tag at the top that says the original will is at the law firm will safe, with the attorney's name and phone number on it. And we tell them, you know, leave that in your desk with your other important papers so it could be easily found.

Brooke: Yeah. Which is so great, so I would encourage everyone to have that difficult conversation with their parents. And I think I told you, after my dad died, all my friends were like, “What can I do? How can I help?” I’d be like, “Talk to your parents about their will,” and they were like, “What?”

Roxy: Right, right. That’s a practical answer.

Brooke: Right, practical answer.

Roxy: I mean, sometimes parents are willing to give their children copies of the documents and let them know where the originals are, or even give them the original. But, you know, sometimes parents don't want to do that. You know, as parents, you're not used to sharing your financial information with your children. So, that's a difficult thing.

Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. So, if you can talk about a little bit- I had a friend who reached out to me when I was asking for questions for this episode, that they were having- her grandmother is in hospice- and they're having some trouble because there is too much flexibility in her living will. So, if you could talk about things for people to think about, of whether or not they want flexibility or they want it airtight in a living will. And again, a reminder for people, a living will is if you cannot make decisions for yourself as it relates to your healthcare. Or if that's even something that would be easy to address without knowing specifics.

Roxy: I mean, there's different ways to do the living will. I mean, one is you just name someone as your healthcare representative and you don't put down any guidance or instructions. So it's really just up to the healthcare representative to decide, make these medical decisions for you, pull the plug, you know, all of that. The other way to do it is name the representative, but give them some instructions. Fairly common instructions are, if I'm terminal, meaning, you know, you're going to die soon, or permanently unconscious, meaning you're not going to wake up, and that's been certified by a physician that then, you know, you don't want any artificial mechanical life support to sustain your life. So you have to strike a balance, I think, between like no instructions, or too detailed instructions. So like, no one can anticipate every single medical decision that's going to have to be made. You know, should I have this prescription, or should I have this or not? You know, no one can get that detailed on the instructions, but you can provide some kind of overriding instructions, like I said, about the terminal, or permanently unconscious, things like that, to try to make it easier for your healthcare representative to use the document.

Brooke: Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And I know just personally speaking, my dad had very specific, like if he was terminal, what sort of intervention, if any, he wanted, and he didn't. And that was really hard as the person who had to carry it out, but ultimately, looking back, so helpful to have that guidance.

Roxy: Right, I mean, even if it's in the document, it's always going to be a difficult decision, and, you know, heart wrenching. But, at least you knew what your dad's wishes were.

Brooke: Exactly, which is such a gift to know. Another question that we got a lot, for people, for millennials who are starting to think about these documents- are there free resources out there that are legit, or should people really be going to an attorney? And I don't know if that's even something that you can answer without knowing the specific situation.

Roxy: Well, there’s definitely free resources to educate yourself, learn what these documents are, what they do, but I do not recommend that people try to do their own wills on a free website. I've actually seen a couple times where people have come to me for a will, and they bring in, “Oh, this is the will I did for myself two years ago,” and I look at it, and it's missing something very important-

Brooke: Oh, really? Okay.

Roxy: An executor clause or, you know, something like that. So this will would have been inadequate if they had died with that. So, of course as an attorney, you know, I don't recommend people do these legal documents themselves.

Brooke: Especially without legal training, right?

Roxy: Right, exactly. No matter how easy you think it is. A lot of people come in for a meeting and like, “Oh, I just need simple documents, they're very easy,” you know? And then they start telling me, “Oh, well, I have a niece with special needs” and, you know, “I have this problem, or that”, and it turns out that will is not quite as easy as they were anticipating when we sit down and talk about the issues. So, obviously, you know, I'm biased, since I’m a Trust and Estates Attorney, but I feel it's well worth the money to hire a Trust and Estates Attorney to prepare these documents for you.

Brooke: And generally, and I know every firm is different, but you could find an attorney to make a will for like a couple hundred bucks. Is that a correct assumption?

Roxy: Well, it depends.

Brooke: Or does it depend on how complicated someone's situation is, and I shouldn’t have said that?

Roxy: Yeah, it does. Some firms by bill by fixed fee. Like, a will costs this or living will costs this. Most firms bill by the hour, so it's a function of how much time is spent and, you know, the attorney's rate, and all of that. And then there's meetings, you know, you have the first meeting to go over everything, and then you might have a second meeting when they come back to sign. But all of that would be laid out for you at the first meeting with the attorney, and then if you don't feel comfortable with it, then you just don't hire that attorney.

Brooke: You find another place, right.

Roxy: Right, but it doesn't hurt to go in and speak with an attorney and find out if they're the ones that you want to work with.

Brooke: Yeah, I think that's great advice. So if you could talk a little bit about- I had several questions from people, and I think I am an anomaly, that I had been talking to my mom, and I have a retirement account and some simple stocks, and I was like, “I really need a will” when I was like 26, and she was like, “Please calm down.”

Roxy: You’re a prodigy Brooke.

Brooke: I don't know about that, but just like, I like paperwork. So, I have a bunch of friends who are in their twenties and thirties, they're not married, they don't have children, and they don't feel like they have a lot of assets. Why should someone in that situation be making a will? I have an answer that my understanding of the law is, but I obviously don't have legal training, so I would like you to answer that question, please.

Roxy: Right, okay. So, you know, you said you had a bank, had a retirement account, and some stocks. Well, there you go. The stocks are going to pass under your will when you die. So, there are probate assets in your name alone. So, pretty much everybody, you know, even though people say “I don't have anything,” I mean, you might have a bank account, and you pay your bills with the bank account. Or you might have, you know, a stock you inherited from your grandfather, something that is going to be a probate asset, and is not going to be covered by a beneficiary designation. So, if you pass away without a will, you die what we call intestate. So that means that the state law of the state where you live controls who ends up with your assets. So instead of like, if you wanted to leave your assets to, you know, this person, well, if you don't have a will, that's not going to happen. Under a will, under without a will and intestacy, you're going to look to state law, which pretty much means your closest relatives will inherit.

Brooke: So would that be like- I'm single, so that would be my brother, likely. Right? Or like a parent?

Roxy: Well if you mother’s still alive, it would go back up to your mother-

Brooke: Oh, interesting, okay.

Roxy: -and often that's not good because, you know, they’re older people who are going to just pass away, and then the asset again is going to have to be transferred, and maybe the older people don't need the assets, you know?

Brooke: Right.

Roxy: So, it's not going to pass your brother. That's the whole point of a will, is that you can control what happens to your assets rather than have your state control who has your assets.

Brooke: I was going to ask like a little bit more about the specifics of the probate process and timeline, because my understanding is if you don't have a will, it takes a lot longer for you to get the assets, and like probate already takes a long time, so that would be another reason to make one. Is that correct?

Roxy: Right, the probate is if you have a will. So, if you don't have a will and you're in intestacy there's nothing to probate, so what you have to do is go to the surrogate's court and be appointed as the administrator of the estate. So, there's an executor if you have a will, if there's no will, you're called an administrator. So state law will say who has priority to be the administrator of your estate. So say you wanted your best friend to handle your estate. Well, if you don't have a will naming them as the executor, then whoever is your closest relative is going to be able to come in and be appointed as the administrator, even if you didn't want them to handle your estate. Plus, every will says that the executor serves without posting a bond with the court. Whereas if there's no will, very, very likely the administrator is going to have to post a bond with the court in order to get appointed.

Brooke: Sort of pay, in layman's terms, to pay money to be able to do this.

Roxy: Right, it's kind of like insurance so if that the administrator gets appointed as the administrator, and then they run off with all the assets, by posting a bond with the court, then the beneficiaries who have been hurt by this can collect on the bond and be made whole. So, the court's not going to appoint the administrator unless there's some kind of security, you know, for them possibly doing something wrong and running off with the assets.

Brooke: And does that bond size depend on the size of the person's estate?

Roxy: Yeah.

Brooke: Okay, interesting. I had no idea, that's so interesting.

Roxy: Right. So, the several reasons, all important, on why you should have a will, even if, at this point, your estate is not that big.

Brooke: And then if you could also- because I have several friends whose parents don't have a will- and they own real estate, or have some financial means, but just for whatever reason, never made a will. Can you please- if there's any, just last pieces of information you think would be convincing to those people in making one, besides the obvious?

Roxy: Parents want to do what’s a good thing for their children. So, if you present it as, you know, “You're going to leave a big mess when you pass away, that I'm going to have to handle, and I'm going to have to pay these extra costs for a bond or whatever, to handle your estate, just because you didn't do a will.” I mean, I think most parents would feel maybe guilted into what they're supposed to be doing, and getting these documents in place. I mean, let's face it. Nobody likes talking about dying, okay? It's not a pleasant topic. And there are plenty of people who think, “Oh, as soon as I make a will and sign it, I'm going to die.” But, you know, I think people need to be responsible, and maybe if their adult kids can remind them about that, I think that would be helpful. No one wants to leave a mess for their kids after they die.

Brooke: Right, exactly. Thank you. So, if you can talk a little bit about what exactly it means to be an executor, and if there's anything- like, because I have several friends who are executors, I was co-executor for my dad- is there anything you need to prepare yourself for that role, or anything to know going in so you're not going in blind?

Roxy: Well, being executor is a very important responsibility. An executor is what we call a fiduciary. So you are legally responsible for the estate, making sure that the will gets carried out and that the beneficiaries under the will receive the assets. So it's something to be taken very seriously. Executors can get sued by beneficiaries if they don't handle the estate properly, and they can be removed. So, that's why I think most executors should speak with an attorney, unless there's one asset or something, you know, extremely simple. But other than that, you're going to want to protect yourself if you're the executor.

Brooke: So you would work with an attorney as the executor?

Roxy: Yes. The attorney would be guiding you- “Okay, this is what you need to do now.” “This is the deadline for this,” you know, “Have you done this?” And making sure that you do all the duties that an executor should be doing, so that you stay out of trouble.

Brooke: Yes. Okay, thank you. And then, if you can talk just a little bit about the probate process and general timeline. Because I think there is a common misconception that funds are available really quick, and that's oftentimes not the case. So, if you could speak about that, please.

Roxy: Right, okay. So a lot of people ask me, what does probate mean anyway? And they’ve heard the word, but they’re not sure exactly what it means. So probate is the process whereby the original will is presented to the surrogate's court in the county where the deceased person lived. Surrogate's court has jurisdiction over wills and estates. So the will’s presented to the court, they accept it as a valid legal document, and they appoint, officially, the executor, and they issue what's called letters testamentary, which have a seal on them that say, “Okay, so-and-so is now officially the executor of the estate.” So, probate's needed in order for the executor to be able to do anything. So, for example, if the decedent had a bank account, right, and you're going to close that account after they pass away. Well, the bank won't speak to you if you're not the executor. I mean, who are you? So, you have to have your official paperwork, I'm sure you know this-

Brooke: I do.

Roxy: Right, unfortunately- presented to the bank in order to be able to close that account and get the money into an estate account.

Brooke: Right. And then similarly, if for any reason you were directed by someone to close an account as power of attorney, you would need those originals when you go into the bank, otherwise they won't speak to you.

Roxy: Right, yes, before the person passes away, you have to, while they are still alive, if something needed to be done like that, you would present the power of attorney to the bank, you know, and say, “Okay, I have the legal authority to do this for them, for this person.”

Brooke: And then I think just a general reminder for everyone, power of attorney is only in effect until the person passes away, and then it's void.

Roxy: That's correct. Once the person passes away, power of attorney is no longer effective, and then we're looking at the will, and getting the executor appointed.

Brooke: Yeah. Okay, perfect, thank you. So we can talk about typically how long it takes to get an inheritance, I'm sure there's people who are wondering about that. And then, I know it's different for every state, but so many people were like- I just got questions that were like, “Taxes” question mark, exclamation point.

Roxy: The “t” word, right?

Brooke: Yeah. And I think that because these conversations are often hard to have, you may not know what- and, of course, you would be lucky to be getting an inheritance, and not everyone is in that position- but, for the people who are, I think they just don't even know  what to do. So when you get it, would it be fruitful to meet with an attorney immediately so you could put some aside and prepare yourself? Just like how to even navigate that, because people don't know.

Roxy: Okay, so you're right, it's not that quick a process. Usually to receive the assets from the estate, the will has to be probated, the executor appointed, there's notices to the beneficiaries, the executor has to gather up all the assets, consolidate. So, lots of stuff has to be done before the distributions would be made to the beneficiaries. Usually, the distributions are more toward the end of the estate administration process, once all debts have been paid, all the assets have been collected, and so the executor knows, “Okay, we've done everything and now we're ready to give out the assets and close up the estate.” So, with a non-probate asset, like if you're the beneficiary of an IRA, I mean, you can just go and get that right away though. I mean, that's not passing through the will. So, as long as you're the beneficiary, you can contact the IRA custodian and get that put into an IRA for yourself.

Brooke: You would need just like a death certificate and your ID, I assume.

Roxy: Yeah, exactly. In terms of taxes- so, inheritances aren’t income when you receive it. So say someone leaves you $20,000 in their will, that's not $20,000 of income, so you have to pay income tax on it.

Brooke: Right.

Roxy: There may be other taxes that could be taken out of it, like if there is any estate or inheritance taxes, in the state that's applicable.

Brooke: And is it the state the person died in, or the state you live in?

Roxy: The state where the person died, that's what controls the estate or inheritance taxes.

Brooke: Okay, not where they were a resident of, so if you die while you're away-

Roxy: No, no, I meant, I'm sorry, I meant where they were a resident of, you're correct.

Brooke: Okay, yeah. You know, people never talk about this, so people have no idea, so this is really helpful to clarify.

Roxy: Good. If it is an IRA, and I mean, I just wanted to mention that, you know, if you decide not to put it as an IRA for yourself, and you just decide to close it out and take the money, then you will have income, with an IRA-

Brooke: On capital gains tax, or no?

Roxy: Well, nobody's paying any income tax on the IRA-

Brooke: Oh yeah, that’s right, yeah.

Roxy: -that was taken out. So, that's something for people to think about when they decide what they're going to do. One other consideration with executors is, you have to be careful if you're the executor when you give out the assets about the decedent's debts. So, you know, you can't just ignore them. If you give out all the assets to the beneficiaries and there is some debt that had to be paid, the executor could be held personally liable if they didn't pay that off before they distributed the assets out to the beneficiary. So executors, like I said, very important job to take a lot of care.

Brooke: And then I think that that's a really good transition, if you could talk about insolvent estates, and I think people are generally really unfamiliar with this concept. And then, we can talk a little bit more about debt, because I got a couple of questions about that as well.

Roxy: Okay, so an insolvent estate, I mean, what that means is that the estate doesn't have enough assets to pay the decedent's debts. So what typically happens is the state law would say the order of priority, so what money there is, how that gets used to pay off debts. You know, funeral expenses may be the first priority, so those would get paid first. Then, you know, costs of administering the estate, and there's usually a list of priorities. And then once everything like that’s paid, then you would distribute the balance, if there is any balance, to the beneficiaries under the will.

Brooke: Right. And then if debts- like, because I think this is a state that people find themselves in, is they have more debt than assets. Like, people die in that all the time.

Roxy: Right, so in that situation the attorney may go to court and get what we call a judgment of insolvency- it's like kind of a court order- and then, that says officially, “Okay, the estate is insolvent.” So then when the debt collectors come, you say, “Oh, look, the estate's insolvent, here's our judgment of insolvency. Go away.”

Brooke: Right.

Roxy: But generally, you know, the beneficiaries, they need to be aware the decedent's debts don't just go away. When someone passes away, they pass onto their estate and the assets of the estate have to be used for paying off those debts before money- 

Brooke: Prior to distribution, right?

Roxy: Right.

Brooke: So, but that doesn't mean that the people named in the will inherit that debt. I think that's something I got questions on as well.

Roxy: Right, it's the executor who has to take care of that. Or, you wouldn’t make a distribution to the beneficiaries if there's some debt out there that still has to be paid, you would take care of that. And oftentimes the executor might be able to negotiate with the creditors, you know, credit card companies, they want cash. I mean, they don't want to have to sue the estate and, you know, spend all this money trying to collect it. So sometimes the executor might say, “Okay, well, you know, it's $5,000. We don't have a lot of money here, how about I pay a $2000, and we'll call it that,” and sometimes they'll go for it.

Brooke: Yeah. Oh, that's good to know, because I think people don't even realize that they can do that. And then, just to be clear- you don't inherit debt yourself. And the executor doesn't inherit the debt, they are just responsible for being sure that the creditors are paid, correct?

Roxy: That's correct. And the beneficiaries would never have to come out of their own pocket, their own money, you know, to pay off the debt of the deceased person. But they would be- it would be the assets of the estate would have to be used, but then you never go farther than that, to like, you know, your own assets.

Brooke: Sure. I think that was all of the questions I had. Is there anything else that you think would just be beneficial for people to know or to think about?

Roxy: Well, I think we pretty much covered everything. I mean, I guess the basic takeaway is, you know, even though you may not want to think about dying or talk about it, you should have those basic estate planning documents in place, and it's best to ask your parents about whether they have the documents in place. And don't act like you want to see the document and know exactly what's in there, but just peace of mind that they have the documents and you won’t have a big problem after they pass away.

Brooke: Yeah, that's great information, and I again want to remind everyone, this is general advice. This is not legal advice. And you would want to talk to your own attorney before putting any of these documents into place. So Roxy, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I'm so glad.

Roxy: Yeah, thank you Brooke, I enjoyed it.

Brooke: And I know this is something that, like we talked about, people don't talk about this. And so, oftentimes the first time you're trying to figure this out is after someone dies, and that's not good.

Roxy: No, I mean, you're already in it emotionally- a state. And then to have all of this pressure on top of that.

Brooke: Absolutely. Alright, so thank you again, I really appreciate your time. And, everyone, if you have any questions, feedback on the episode, you can reach out to us at hello@thegriefcoach.co, you can find us on social at @The_GriefCoach, and thanks for tuning in.