Ep 12: Transcript
12. Love Advice From My Dead Dad
Brooke James: Hi everyone, this is Brooke James. Welcome to The Grief Coach. If it's your first time listening, I'm so glad you're here. And if you've listened to us before, welcome back. Today, in honor of Valentine's day, I have my cousin Casey here, and we're going to talk about love lessons from my dad. So, when we graduated college, we all lived in D.C. and New York, and all had small spaces because we were in our early twenties. We would caravan out often to the house I grew up in, in Connecticut, with big groups of what was normally girlfriends, and have a lot of great quality time with my dad, which we're going to talk about a little bit more. But he loved having all of these young women around, and would always talk to us about how great, and smart, and wonderful we all were, and we ended up talking a lot about love, and he gave us a lot of advice that we still reference today. And so Casey and I are gonna talk to you guys a little bit about that today. But before we do that, I'm going to give Casey a chance to introduce herself.
Casey Blue James: Hello, and thank you, Brooke, for having me.
Brooke: Thanks for being here.
Casey: My name is Casey Blue James, I'm Brooke's cousin, I work in book publishing. And I love Beau, and I still have conversations with him and I still seek advice from him about all manner of subjects, but certainly love. When I came out to the east coast for college, I was very far from my nuclear family and my parents, so he has always been a parental figure to me, and he kind of still is. And so I love the opportunity to think about the advice he gave us, and the advice I feel like he would give us in this situation, it's like, keep going. So, this is exciting and I'm happy to talk about it.
Brooke: Yes, I'm excited. I think, yeah, it's advice that we all still talk about, and so I'm excited to share it with people.
Casey: Some of it's really earnest and beautiful, and some of it's just funny. It’s the whole gamut, it runs the whole gamut.
Brooke: Yeah, so one thing that I feel like always really struck people about my dad was that he was such a romantic-
Casey: Total romantic.
Brooke: -and loved romcoms, and would cry at romcoms and believed in like great love stories and grand gestures. But, at the same time, really appreciated the mystery and cool and anticipation, which was his tagline when it came to romance, which we'll talk about a little bit more later. And he really appreciated romance, and love, and women in a way that wasn't creepy.
Casey: Oh yeah, he just loved women. He just loved women.
Brooke: He did, and that sounds weird. Cause yeah, he was in his seventies-
Casey: But in the most beautiful, true, purist way.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: He loved being around women, he loved talking to women, he respected women, he liked talking to women about their careers, and their hopes, and their dreams. He also enjoyed being in their presence, he liked when they were dressed up. He liked when they smelled nice, like in a non-creepy way, I think he just appreciated women.
Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. And we would go out to Connecticut and spend all day by the pool, and then people would go, “Well, we have to dress for dinner,” because he would give us a hard time if we showed up to dinner in sweatpants, which definitely happened. But he loved the Karl Lagerfeld quote of “You've given up on your life, and now you're in sweatpants.” I think he just really appreciated when people generally put effort into their appearance.
Casey: Yes.
Brooke: Men or women, and he would make jokes about that,-
Casey: Yes.
Brooke: -when he saw a couple that he thought were mismatched, in terms of effort put in, he would- we were going to talk about this later, but it feels natural to talk about it now that- he would be like, “I saw this couple, and the woman was like decked in beautiful dress, and hair done, and makeup done, and the guy she was with was just schlubby, and ripped jeans, and didn't comb his hair, in like sneakers,” and he would get so angry.
Casey: So angry. And certainly there would be, you know, he was fun to talk to because we clamored for his advice, but at the same time, we would openly debate things with him. Like some of it was a generational difference, but I think at the core crux of it, it really was the supreme belief in good old fashioned romance.
Brooke: Yeah, I agree.
Casey: So, I think and a big piece of that is certainly keeping up appearances, and decorum.
Brooke: Yes. So one thing that, towards the end when my dad was in a hospice, I had all of his computer passwords, and I was managing basically like the administrative shutdown of someone's life. In a financial sense I was power of attorney, but then also had to shut off his Facebook and his LinkedIn, and then I was like, “Oh, he has active dating apps and dating profiles, so I should turn those off.” And so I logged into his computer, and he had his password saved, so I logged into, he had Match and eHarmony-
Casey: I interrupt you to ask, were you dreading this task, or were you-
Brooke: I just, I feel like, was in such survival mode that I was like, “This is a task on my to-do list,” and then I don't have to be sad if I'm thinking about my to-do list, which was really where I was thriving at that point. So I went and I was very pleasantly surprised at how earnest he was in what he wrote, and I think- and like Casey and I were talking about this before- that the difference in my Hinge profile where I literally have the martini emoji as like, “What's your favorite drink?,” that's my answer, versus he has these paragraphs of what he's looking for, and who he is, and what he likes, and how he wants to spend his time, and what's important to him.
Casey: It kind of makes all the difference.
Brooke: Yeah, and I remember complaining about the dating scene a couple of years ago, and he was like, “Well, you're on all these free apps, no one's taking it seriously because they're not committing anything to it.” And I really think there's a lot of truth to that, as much as I hate to admit it, because I don't want to pay $20 a month, or however much it costs for these apps.
Casey: There's a question of prioritization, right?
Brooke: And how seriously you take it.
Casey: Totally, and also this concept of context. He would regularly tease us for posting Instagram pictures with quippy, you know, clever emoji-based captions. He'd be like, “What is the point of this? What is this picture? Where'd you take it?”
Brooke: Do you remember, I went to Beyonce, and everyone knew it was Beyonce, and I captioned it with the queen emoji and the bee emoji, and he literally comments, he's like, “Who's the artist? Who's the act? What's the context? Where are you? What's the song?” I was like, “Uh, dad, it's Beyonce.”
Casey: He was giving you an exercise and I think that, for him, things really were about context, and that's the best way to fully understand something. And so it's actually, thank you for letting me look at them, it's beautiful to look at his dating profile, because it gives such a, you know, ornate, deep, honest picture of what mattered to him, how he liked to spend his time, what he was hoping the person he matched with, how they would spend their time, what their priorities were, and just so pure.
Brooke: So pure, and funny, and sweet. So like, we were laughing before this because there's a question- I don't know which site it was on- about pets, and he liked animals, and he retired to Vermont when he was 30, and was a farmer and raised pigs, which is hysterical if you knew him in his second life- I just did air quotes- of like all-black, museums, performing arts, and-
Casey: Human urbane gentlemen after being-
Brooke: Yeah, that's a much more sophisticated way to say it.
Casey: -a farmer.
Brooke: Yes, and so he's like, “I love animals, I was in 4-H, but I really find trouble with the animal owners, because they're a little obsessed.”
Casey: He says he understands why people love their pets. But yeah, people veer on obsession.
Brooke: You're right. Which I joke about all the time.
Casey: And I totally am like one of those obsessives so, yeah.
Brooke: But then, he talked a lot about performing arts, and that's how he really liked to spend his time, and travel, and going to museums, and he always liked to take a few days whenever he had a business trip to be able to explore the local culture, which oftentimes for him was going to museums and seeing what the art scene was, or going to the opera, whatever.
Casey: Which by the way, is context about the place, just to get meta about the context.
Brooke: Oh, very good. And he put a lot of that language around that in his profiles, and I think that was a really important way for him to spend time connecting with people. And I know that's something that him and I did a lot, was go to museums. And so, it was nice to see that as a common theme of that he used the arts to connect with people. And then, he talked a lot about entertaining, and how important his family was to him. And I remember always, growing up, he would reference, I think it was four generations at the time, but he referenced, when he was little, of women again. So this appreciation of women happened for so long.
Casey: We have a lot of strong matriarchs in our family.
Brooke: We certainly do. And that he just loved to sit and listen to them all talk. So it was his great grandma, his grandma, his mom, and his sister and cousins.
Casey: Just explains everything.
Brooke: It really does. But he put in his profile about how important both family was to him, and entertaining, and, you know-
Casey: He's the consummate host.
Brooke: Yeah, and that's how people remember him, and he reveled in being the host and remembering, “What do you want to drink?” and, like, “Are you comfortable?” and, like, “What can I get you?” and this big spread of food and abundance always.
Casey: I just had a really extreme flashback of him picking up a glass from someone's hand that's empty except for the ice, and just jingling it around and being like, “What’s going on here? I need a new, fresh drink.”
Brooke: And like if you were taking too long to drink your martini, he would chill it again for you. He'd be like, “It's not going to be good like that,” like, “We can't have you drinking that.”
Casey: We have to give you the verbatim quote from his dating profile because it's funny. Quote: “Entertaining is most satisfying.” And that really comes through. I mean, that came through, that he- it was down to every detail. He wanted people to feel comfortable and to feel joyous, and then relaxed, and then, you know, that makes people comfortable and feel good.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: And I think that translates to every part of his life, including romance. But that definitely sets a good picture of him, I think.
Brooke: Absolutely. And so I think if we- one thing that he always talked about was how important communication was- so we referenced that context was really important to him, but in communication he always felt very strongly that you should say how you feel, and otherwise how are you going to know if the other person feels the same way?
Casey: Oh god, yes.
Brooke: And we, I feel, as millennials are socialized of like being cool, and not giving away too much, which-
Casey: Hedging, not showing our hand-
Brooke: Right, which he valued, but he would be like- so, okay, we can tell this story of this dinner, that's this legendary dinner that Casey, our cousin Nikki, myself, and then my dad and his best friend Tim, were at. And I remember, and it was long votive candles down the dining room table, and we probably had lobster because it was summertime, and so much wine. And we started drinking probably at three o'clock in the afternoon, maybe four.
Casey: This was later on in the evening when we'd gotten into the Grappa, I'm afraid.
Brooke: Yes.
Casey: Which is always an indicator of a deep conversation with a lot of feelings.
Brooke: Right. And so- I talked about this in the speech I gave at his funeral, because it's such a strong memory for me- that we were all talking about each of our-
Casey: Respective significant others at the time.
Brooke: Right, who none of which are in the picture anymore.
Casey: None of them are significant, even.
Brooke: They were not significant.
Casey: They weren't then, and they aren't now, but-
Brooke: Correct.
Casey: -that's an aside.
Brooke: But we thought they were because we were 24. And, we all, I think, cried.
Casey: Oh yeah. Well, Grappa, but also feelings.
Brooke: Right, lethal combination.
Casey: Totally.
Brooke: And so, he’s like, “Okay, so girls, really just write a letter, and that's how you can get your feelings all in one place.” He was such a big proponent of letters, because no one could interrupt you, and you could get everything out, and you could really think about how do you want to structure this. And I remember being terrified. “You want me to write this guy, like write it down on paper, like what?” And, but I did it, and never heard from him because he was a dirtbag, but dad, I remember very clearly candlelit of like, “You are not going to get anything important if you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable.”
Casey: Oh yeah, the vulnerability.
Brooke: And I think that that's so true, but it's terrifying.
Casey: Totally terrifying. And I think that it really showed- it was a good teaching moment- it really showed a difference in communication culture across the generations, that we were all petrified by the idea. I think the overarching theme of the night was we were all distraught about some aspect of our relationship with each of these people, and he was like, “What are you all- what's the fear here?” And I remember being like that if I ask the question point blank, or share how I'm feeling, I'm not going to like what I hear back.
Brooke: Right.
Casey: That's super scary. He was like, “Of course it is, but if you don't do that, how will you know?” And also if you don't- if the worst fear is you don't like what you hear back, now you know, and you can move on, which is obviously a terrifying thought, but extremely healthy advice. But yeah, I think it really was, you know, you won't know until you say it, and you can't really grow with another person unless you're vulnerable around them, which clearly we were being around Beau all the time, so he saw our best version of ourselves. But I think because of that, he was like, “Other people won't see this version of you unless you let them,” which is so scary, especially when you're a kid and you're trying to look cool.
Brooke: Which like, I'm still trying to look cool, like I'm not, but I'm trying to trick people into thinking I'm- and I think there's this concept, especially in like dating in your 20s and 30s and probably also if you're a teenager, but that was so long ago, so I forget, of being like the cool girl who doesn't care. And the myth of the cool girl, who doesn't exist at all, but you have to try to trick a dude into thinking that you’re cool- which, I've been trying to do all week, by the way, and it's not working- so-
Casey: Yeah, Beau would have shut that down.
Brooke: Like if my dad- so, if I was seeing this guy and he's being moron, and I'm trying to cool girl him into like- I don't even know what, but like- some realizations, we are realizing things here on this podcast right now. But my dad, if I told him about this guy, he would be like, “I'm sorry, what are you doing?” So, I think that back to this legendary evening that we all still reference, that he just so prioritized vulnerability and direct communication, both of which are terrifying, but they work.
Casey: Worth it in the end.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: It can have amazing benefits if you're direct and you say how you feel, which I think surprises a lot of people, and is hard to do. And for people of all ages-
Brooke: Have you had experience where you have done it, and men are like, “I'm sorry, what?” and they get confused, because I have.
Casey: I've had a mix. I think that I've been really open about how I feel with some people, and it scared them away because they weren't ready, or they didn't feel the same as I did. Which sucked at the time, but in hindsight is a gift because then I knew and could move on.
Brooke: And like, you weren’t wasting your time.
Casey: Exactly, life is short. Or I've had men respond really well to it, and then I just catch them in a moment, and then they do it right back, which is, obviously, the most gratifying outcome that you hope for.
Brooke: Right.
Casey: And I've had men who, I think, you know, hear me being vulnerable and aren't reacting quite the same way, but later will say “I was surprised how open you are, it was like a breath of fresh air.” And I actually remember when someone told me that. Thinking of this dinner, I really did, because that was such a key lesson to learn early on in my dating life.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: I really carry it with me since. And it's hard to do still-
Brooke: It is hard to do still.
Casey: But I really do, in his honor, try to do it whenever I’m at a crux.
Brooke: See, you're, that's really more emotionally mature than- I'm like, “Oh, I know I should do that,” but like “ehhh.”
Casey: It is easier said than done. It's not for every situation, but when you really care, as we clearly did about these, whoever they weres, at the time-
Brooke: Dumb dumbs. But like, we really were right in there with our feelings, which probably- not probably- he liked, he really valued being in touch with your feelings, and I think he- back to the point of him being such a consummate host- made it a place where we could, as a family, but then also all of our- like, we would literally go out like groups of 10, 15 girls- and everyone felt so comfortable. Even if it was the first time they were meeting him, just sharing, and he made you feel like you were the only person in the room. And he- like, you would end up telling him everything, and he would give such pointed advice, and was so wise that it was-
Casey: And it was all these things, right? Because he was a consummate host, he was setting the mood. He made you feel immediately comfortable and at ease. I think, yeah, to get into it a little bit, when he was talking to somebody, of course it was all about eye contact, but it was also about, you know, his phone was across the room-
Brooke: And would yell at us if we were on our phones.
Casey: Oh yeah, this is like an ingrained rule to not look at your phone when you're having a conversation with somebody.
Brooke: And I have had people comment on it, because I will leave my phone, if I'm on a date, like first date from an app, whatever, but I leave my phone in my pocket.
Casey: Yeah.
Brooke: And I've had guys be like, “You didn't look at your phone once.” I’m like, “Right, because, like, we're having drinks.” It's just people don't do that.
Casey: Giving someone your undivided attention is so special, and increasingly rare.
Brooke: Absolutely.
Casey: I try to apply it to even non-romantic scenarios.
Brooke: Same.
Casey: Of course I have my phone on me if, you know, I'm waiting for news about something important, or it's the work day and that email might come through or that call, but wherever possible, I really do try to put the phone away. So it was all about giving a person attention, and then he was so- his curiosity was one of the most special things about him. He wanted to know everything about you. Not in a nosy way, like it never came across as an interview, but if he-
Brooke: No. And then you would realize, “Wow, I just said so many things.”
Casey: Yeah. He tricked you into talking, because I think he could pick up on, because he didn't have these distractions of the phone, or not really being present. He was really present.
Brooke: And like there was only one room in the house where there was a TV.
Casey: Oh yeah, that's true.
Brooke: And he hated bars with TVs. And if I went on a date and the bar had a TV, and I would tell him, he'd be like, “No.”
Casey: Unless the point of the date is to watch the sporting event together, I agree.
Brooke: I never go on dates like that. Do you? You never go on dates like that.
Casey: I have. Or like, to watch election results come in or something.
Brooke: Okay, yeah, seems more on brand.
Casey: Or like, I don't know, I've gone to watch a sporting event on the television. Okay, this is getting beside the point. But he would really pay attention to you, and he would focus on- I think he had an innate scent that he could pick up on because these distractions were all gone- okay, I'm getting to something, they're really passionate, their eyes light up when they're talking about this- and he would, that's when he would bore in, and he would ask the followup questions, which is part of being a good conversationalist and a good listener-
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Is picking up when someone clearly likes what they're talking about. And that's just a life skill across the board that I'm so grateful that, just via osmosis, I feel like watching him-
Brooke: And watching him you were like, “Oh, that's how that works.”
Casey: That’s how you do it.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: That's how you do it.
Brooke: Absolutely. And I think another big thing that he always talked about with us, was how important it was to take the time and enjoy the moment, and specifically with romantic relationships, but generally life lesson of like, “if you're having a good time, get in there and have a good time.”
Casey: Oh yeah.
Brooke: And that is something that is hard sometimes, because you can really get in your head of, “Should I be doing this? Is this a good idea? Are they going to think I'm crazy because I'm like, ‘Let's like spend the whole weekend together.’” And he'd be like, “No. Have fun.”
Casey: He was such a proponent of enjoying life.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Whether that was having the extra martini, even if you're not sure if you should or-
Brooke: Yes, you should.
Casey: -cutting into the cheese board before it’s sat out for the full hour, or whatever. It was just, not always like indulge, indulge, indulge, but just enjoy, especially when you're with people you love or care about, or, and I think that translates even if you don't love them yet, if you're interested in somebody, if you're interested in a person and you want to see where it's going to go, leap in.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: He was all for it. I’ve thought about that too. I've traveled great distances to see people not knowing quite why I'm doing it, and just feeling like a crazy person, and hearing his voice in my head like, “Why not? Give it a shot. Clearly there's something that's propelling you to do this. Try it. Life is short,” and like, “Woo.” I think about that all the time.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: It's such a gift. It's really like, it's like taking carpe diem to like the-
Brooke: The next level.
Casey: For sure.
Brooke: Absolutely.
Casey: And he wasn't- there was sense to it, but because there were these screens and filters for quality it's not like willy nilly just doing anything wild and crazy, but I think it’s if your heart's telling you to do it, even if you're worried that the people who you respect, or who you hope will respect you, think it's a crazy idea. If you really feel like you want to do it-
Brooke: Then do it.
Casey: -you should do it.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Just fucking do it.
Brooke: Absolutely.
Casey: Am I allowed to curse?
Brooke: Yeah, I mark all the episodes as explicit because normally I or a guest ends up swearing at some point.
Casey: Just fucking do it.
Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. I think- so, we talked a little bit about putting effort in.
Casey: Yeah, good effort.
Brooke: And we always joke, and what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode, of it's very easy to equate that with what do you look like, and like, how are you dressing yourself, and like, are you making sure you smell nice, and like, do you have nice shoes on? But I-
Casey: These are things that feel superficial-
Brooke: But they're not.
Casey: They're not.
Brooke: Because how much do you respect the person that you're spending time with?
Casey: That's an indication that you care.
Brooke: Right. And I think also, and how this really applies to dating now, where we all think being casual and cool is good, but taking the time and putting the effort in around making a plan with someone.
Casey: Oh yeah, oh my gosh- planning. “Oh my gosh?” Wow, my Chicago accent really came up.
Brooke: But I remember- remember that guy I went out with like two years ago, and he made a dinner reservation, and we were all out in Connecticut, and I was like “He made reservations.” And dad was like, “I'm sorry? You're impressed that he made dinner reservations.” Do you remember this?
Casey: I know, we were all shocked, and he was like, “This should just be the standard.”
Brooke: I was like, “No, no, we made a plan.” And Dad was like-
Casey: That was so rare.
Brooke: -”The bar is so low,” and it's like, a) you don't even know, but it was so impressive that someone took the time to make a plan, and I think that shows that you respect their time, and you respect your own time, and, yes, spontaneity is fun and can be really sexy, but plans are also, like for me, cause I'm a psychopath, like I love plans, but it's attractive.
Casey: So do I. It is attractive. And I think there's this fear, right? That if you put too much effort into something, it's totally not cool, or-
Brooke: You'll scare them away.
Casey: -or you’ll scare them away, or it'll seem like you care too much. And so, of course, you know, read the room, if you're the person who's always putting the effort in and the other person isn't, maybe time to have a conversation or to rethink the thing. But if you're courting somebody, and I think courting goes both ways-
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: -like, put in the effort. Whether that's you making the reservation, or you remembering that they said they liked such and such thing, and then you see there's an exhibit up about that. Or you see there's a concert in that, you know, genre of music, and saying, you know, “This might be fun, you mentioned you like this.” Or, you know, they said that they liked that lipstick shade on you, and then you wear it every date afterward. Like, just the little things. It really is, it's effort and it’s thoughtfulness and it's caring, and that is fucking attractive.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: It goes both ways.
Brooke: Totally.
Casey: Like across gender norms, all of that. Like it's just simply thoughtfulness.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: And it's not super- I mean, you can be superficial about it- but I think it speaks to something deeper.
Brooke: I agree. Totally. So, one thing that Casey and I, when we talk about dad and love and romance, that he was such a proponent of good old fashioned romance-
Casey: Good old fashioned romance.
Brooke: -and specifically what we were just talking about, of like when you feel a connection, pursue it, because a spark is special.
Casey: A spark is special, and it doesn't matter if it doesn't turn into a giant flaming hot fire.
Brooke: Right.
Casey: Try it though.
Brooke: Right. And like flirting- I remember him when he would kind of like flirt with a waitress or someone, we’re at an event, whatever, he would just be like, “Hmm. It's fun and she was pretty.”
Casey: Flirting is really fun.
Brooke: Flirting is really fun, and he just very much was like, “If you are interested, try it and see where it goes.” Because the “what if” is not worth dealing with.
Casey: Exactly, exactly. And I think, yeah, I mean when I think of him and romance, it's hard to- we kind of mentioned this at the beginning- but like, how many romcoms have we watched with him?
Brooke: Oh my god, like hundreds.
Casey: And we had like, postmortems about the plot after. Or like, he would be giving his running commentary. Like, “Well, that's crazy,” or like, “Oh god, look at that.” And this, yes, romcoms are not reality, but I think you can take the tenets of a romantic narrative and try to apply them to your- what is it about a situation that you're watching on a screen that we all watch on screens, that's appealing. And like, yes, you don't have to mirror any entire plot. Yes, you're not gonna run into the person on the street that you least expected, like you can't account for chance and serendipity, but I think if there's something that's appealing to you, try it. And so like, he would take these- I think that is why he was so romantic, is like a romantic gesture that he saw somewhere. Why not just try it in real life? I don't know, I think- he was so romantic, and some of it was like setting the mood and related to him being a host, and remembering what your drink order was, and what you like to eat, and just setting the mood in general. But I think there are other things that I- okay, I feel like we just need to get to this one particular thing that I know we both want to talk about.
Brooke: Anticipation. So-
Casey: He literally would-
Brooke: Would do that. That's why I did it.
Casey: She’s shimmying her shoulders, and like her hands are facing up, and he would make a little song out of it, “an-ti-ci-pa-tion.”
Brooke: I think it's a real song that we need to figure out-
Casey: Oh, we need to Google this.
Brooke: -who sang it.
Casey: Anticipation is essential.
Brooke: For romance, totally. And he was such a proponent of long distance relationships, because he's like, “Then you just think about them and you get excited, and then you have this whirlwind weekend, and then you can go live your own life,” which-
Casey: Really romantic.
Brooke: So romantic.
Casey: But it also applies even in, I mean, this is something I really loved about him because I do think, you know, long distance relationships freak people out, and people try to talk you out of doing them. But he was a model for how you could do it, and live your own life and be your own person, but also really love and care about somebody and have fun with it.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: But I also think anticipation could be applied more broadly.
Brooke: Totally. I think he was a really big fan of mystery, and to what we were talking about earlier, of not being on your phone all the time. Like he didn't- he was like “Why are you talking to this person all the time?” Like, wait and think about them, get excited, and then when you see them, what are you going to talk about with them if you've been talking to them?
Casey: Meaning, don't use text as a-
Brooke: You feel like you're getting closer, because you're texting all the time.
Casey: It's addictive. And especially when you're falling for somebody, it's fun to hear from them at all times of day, and to talk to them constantly.
Brooke: But, it makes it sometimes less special-
Casey: I think so.
Brooke: -when you do see them in person.
Casey: Exactly.
Brooke: And it doesn't let you build up the anticipation of missing them and like, “Oh my god, what are they going to say? What's it going to be like?” Which is like all things that go into attraction.
Casey: Totally, it's like basic psychology.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: I mean, yeah, I know, what’s that saying? “Absence makes the heart grow fonder.” It's so corny, but it's low key true.
Brooke: It's high key true.
Casey: Yeah, high key. It's high key. So, that was a big takeaway, and he would use it in all kinds of contexts, and he would apply it to how you're communicating with somebody, how you're conceiving of a relationship. I think, you know, many of us who were pursuing dating in a busy city would be like, “Well, I don't have the time to see this person like more than once a week.” And he’d be like, “Well, what's wrong with that? That's literally perfect, if not too often.” And I think that that's helpful when you are someone who, you know, has a busy social life, or busy with work, or has a lot of things that matter to you. And, of course, you know, there's the question of how are you prioritizing things, and if you're really falling for somebody, you make the time for them. “Make the time,” another Beau tenant. But I do think you can work with seeing somebody having constraints on your time.
Brooke: I- yeah.
Casey: And it can, in fact, work in your favor.
Brooke: But it feels like the antithesis to what we feel like it should be.
Casey: Constant.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Access.
Brooke: But that's not good.
Casey: Communication.
Brooke: Mystery.
Casey: Mystery is nice.
Brooke: It is nice. It’s hard.
Casey: There's like a balance.
Brooke: It's a balance. So, we were just talking about this a little bit as it related to anticipation. But, one thing that he felt so strongly about, and would be very vocal with us and our friends, is how do you maintain independence in a relationship?
Casey: So key.
Brooke: So key. And he felt very strongly that you don't lose yourself. One thing, though, when we would bring guys to Connecticut-
Casey: Oh yeah, this was a big deal when this happened.
Brooke: Yeah. And he would get angry, to be clear.
Casey: Sometimes he would invite them by accident. But yeah, in general. In general.
Brooke: One specific situation where he invited a man
Casey: He invited a man before the person seeing the man was ready for the man to come, but in general. He felt so bad about that. He, in general, he didn't love when we brought the men.
Brooke: No, and he would-
Casey: And it wasn't just because he wanted to hang out with us for himself, which obviously he did.
Brooke: He did.
Casey: And he wanted that too.
Brooke: But he- and the dynamic was different. But what he said, which really struck me, and I remember kind of fighting with him about it, or like fighting him on it, I guess- which was like, “You guys change your personalities when there are guys here that you like.”
Casey: Which is really hard to hear if you fancy yourself-
Brooke: Like a strong independent woman.
Casey: Exactly, which we-
Brooke: We all do.
Casey: -we and our friends all do. But it- there's some truth to it. Once he points it out, you really notice it in yourself and you observe it in your friends. I remember him saying to me, “You act really different when he's here. Usually you light up, you're engaged, you're opinionated.”
Brooke: “Boisterous,” was what he always would use to describe us.
Casey: Boisterous, yeah. “And then he shows up and you're timid, and you're letting him talk, and you're just sitting there,” which was so cringy to hear.
Brooke: So cringy. And you're not the only one who said it to-
Casey: I know.
Brooke: To be clear, he said it to everyone who brought a man.
Casey: But I think it's true, and part of it is certainly, you know, you're introducing someone who's important to you, and it matters to you that the people who you care about will like this person, and you want to make that person who's new to the group feel comfortable, so you're kind of giving them a spotlight in some ways, and I get that. But, I think he really had a point, which is if you go too far doing that, you really do start to lose your participation in the group dynamic.
Brooke: Well, and like you're doing yourself a disservice, because if you want this person you clearly care about enough to bring around people who are really, really important to you, but if then they don't see what that interaction is, and why it's so valuable, then are they seeing what you were so excited for them to see?
Casey: Exactly. That's exactly it. And I think because we would have these kind of conversations after the visits, we all started to take it to heart. And we had a friend of ours-
Brooke: We were talking about this episode with a couple of our girlfriends. One of our friends who is seeing this guy, she was like, “It's so funny that you bring this up, because I was just talking about this with this new guy I'm seeing, about Connecticut, and Beau, and how wonderful it was when we all went and how”-
Casey: I’m telling you guys, he's a legend-
Brooke: He is.
Casey: -in our friend group, and every man or woman, whoever dates any of us for the foreseeable future in life is going to hear about Beau.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: And the Beau standards. So, just something for those interested.
Brooke: And, she's like, “It's so funny you bring this up, because I was just telling this guy I'm seeing about those weekends,” and that- it underscored for her, and these conversations about romance that we had all the time, because dating and romance is fun to talk about.
Casey: So fun. What else is there? Just kidding.
Brooke: But she was like, “I considered your dad to be like a validation of true love,” and I cried so much when she told me this, but, so, I think we all did, and that's why we wanted to do this episode, was because he really- and I hope we did it justice. I don't know if it's possible to do it justice.
Casey: Certainly impossible, but we tried.
Brooke: We tried, and we're drinking some of his champagne that I took from his house.
Casey: Thanks Beau.
Brooke: Thank you, Beau.
Casey: Tastes great.
Brooke: Tastes so good, cheers to Beau. But I think that because he put so much, and was very vocal about how valuable we all were, it made us want to better value ourselves, and think about who are we spending our time with? Who are we bringing around people we care about? Which, I think, is a huge thing in new relationships.
Casey: The way she put it was it was like he created a filter for us, and we only wanted to bring someone around to him and to this, you know, this group of people we loved, who was worth it.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Because he set these standards for ourselves. And she said, I thought that this was so beautiful, “It underlined how genuinely he cared about meaningful connections and relationships.” Which is- that just cuts right to the heart of it, that’s exactly what it is.
Brooke: Yeah, yeah.
Casey: And it's like, fucked me up because now my standards are really fucking high.
Brooke: Mine are so high.
Casey: I don't regret it for a second.
Brooke: My standards are high, I feel like, and my expectations are low, is my like, jokey way I always put it, because if you're listening and you live in a major city in the United States, it's rough out there. But I think that when you really think about it, of like, “What would Beau say?”
Casey: What would Beau say? I think it's true, and will just say he gives me hope still, even when I'm feeling like freaked out about where we live and what the options are and the depressing ass things that you find on the apps.
Brooke: Like the 45 year olds who like are looking for something casual, but want kids someday. That's my favorite.
Casey: Among others. It gives me hope, and I think there's this, you know, to get back to the, you know, live in the moment and all of this stuff, that, and life is short and increasingly feels that way. On the one hand, it's like lean in and enjoy the thing, but on the other hand, it's like don't waste your time with anything less than the best.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: And so even if I have to spend the rest of my life with me. Thank god I love me, but I'm not going to settle for anything less, because he taught me.
Brooke: Yeah. And I remember one of my nieces, she loves to talk about dating, and she was like, “Well, Brooke, don't you want to get married? Don't you want to have kids?” Like, “You really got to, like, find someone to have kids with.” I was like, “First of all, I'm working on it. But, second of all,” I was like, “it's really important to not settle,” and I was like, “I would rather be alone than with someone bad.” She's a kid, and I feel like that's really important for her to hear. But I think that dad would be like, “It's better for you to have a whirlwind romance and be really excited about it, than like a long-term meh.”
Casey: Totally. Oh my god, no meh.
Brooke: Yeah, no meh.
Casey: Let's not, can we just not. We're not. We're not.
Brooke: I think- was there anything else that we wanted to talk about?
Casey: Anything and everything, but, you know, I think this really gets to the heart of it.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Ah, cheers to Beau.
Brooke: Cheers to Beau.
Casey: Thank you Beau, we love you.
Brooke: We love you. Thank you guys for listening, I hope that you found this interesting to listen to. It's a little bit different than what I normally talk about on here, but I think it really gets to how do you honor and remember someone who you miss and isn't here anymore. And Casey and I, and like several of our friends, both often think about, “What would Beau do?” And one of our really good friends messaged me the other day, and she's like, “I think of your dad every time I clean my bathroom.” I'm like, “I'm sorry, what?” She’s like, “He would always say the first thing a guy notices when they- one of the first things- is like, if your bathroom is messy, he's gonna think you're disgusting.”
Casey: It's true.
Brooke: And I recently had that situation, where I didn't think someone was going to come over, and they were like, “This is gross.” And I was like, “Okay, you can leave.” Like, get out of here. So, there's a way to remember what he said, and the advice he gave in a lighthearted way, but also how these core beliefs of what should a relationship be, and what should love be, and we all still think about that, and “What would Beau do? What would Beau say?”
Casey: I still talk to him all the time.
Brooke: Yeah.
Casey: Like, “What should I do now?”
Brooke: I don't talk to him yet, but I think of, “Okay, what would he say about this?”
Casey: Yeah.
Brooke: But maybe that's the same thing.
Casey: I think so, yeah.
Brooke: Alright, so thank you, everyone, for listening. Thank you, Casey, for being here-
Casey: Thank you for having me.
Brooke: -and doing this-
Casey: Thanks for listening, everyone.
Brooke: This was really nice. You can find us on social at @The_GriefCoach, online at thegriefcoach.co, and if you want to shoot an email over, hello@thegriefcoach.co. Thank you for listening, and talk to you soon.